Woman 2K5: The Debate
So someone actually read the Woman 2K5 article and thinks it’s bogus. Well I am not one to just sit back and get corrected without fighting back (a little).
Real Woman 2K5: “No powerful, woman is going to the places you go to. If she is, she is a fraud. Yes, we live the double standard, but so what? I use it to my advantage in the business world. I’ve been noted as a hard-ass when conducting business, but that’s only when making the deal. Forming the relationship is half the battle and you go from there. Same goes for relationships….but i’m an old fashion girl deep down….i like when a guy comes up to me, makes the first move. Is that so wrong? When a girl comes up to you, you automatically think “score” isn’t that a double standard?”
Jordan 2K5: “Good points. Let’s take them one at a time shall we?
1. I agree that hot clubs do not usually attract the high powered femme fatales I was describing. That said, why can’t the women who actually do go to the hot clubs be confident enough to do the approaching? They are still women, right? Let’s be honest: women who go to clubs wearing less than nothing don’t exactly what a book club partner. They are only going out dressed like that for three reasons: 1) to get looked at and thus boost their self-esteem, 2) get some action, and 3) a combination of 1 and 2. If they are in the 2 or 3 group then why play coy? Go after it. You think guys will respect you less or think you are desperate? They don’t respect you already and everyone knows how desperate guys are in general.
Now let’s go back to the high-powered business woman. Why can’t she make a move at a business meeting, office function, nice party, friends soiree, etc? I agree that it’s nice to be old fashioned. Things like chivalry are going out the window quicker than a fat kid down a hill. But I’m not saying that just because a woman has to initiate the conversation by saying “hi” it doesn’t mean the man will now get pregnant and wear the blahnik’s. If women can bring it in the workplace like a man, she should be able to say “hello, can I buy you a drink?” at a social function.
2. When a real girl actually comes up to me I usually think she’s lost. If it turns out that they have a thing for “special” guys and she actually wanted to speak to me then I think it is charming and refreshing. I do not judge whatsoever. And I do not think “score” (whatever that means). All I am saying is that it would be wonderful for an actual nice woman to come over than one who is either really drunk or really an unsavory bus skank. Confidence is sexy.
3. Yes there is a super double standard. Truth. But guys pay for all the food so I feel we deserve something. When guys are super cocky girls like it (ok, not all but let’s be honest, more than there should be). “Ooh, this guy is full of himself, he must be so hot!” When a woman is super confident guys don’t automatically think “slut.” Unless she is a slut. Then guys think she is a slut. But not if she is just a nice, confident woman asking to buy us a drink, or take a walk, or for a quickie in the bathroom.
Bam, what say you now?
13 Comments to “Woman 2K5: The Debate”
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Yes, finally poker and indians together at last. Wait…
Jordan Grant…my question for you is, do you write from experience? Are you even in a relationship? Or are you that guy in the club, at the business meeting, or waiting in the bathroom?
NYCLola…if that’s your real name…everything I write stems from some sort of experience that I have had or that I have rightfully stolen from someone else. I must tell you that I am usually the guy at the club who just got out of a business meeting and needs to go to the bathroom.
I like your sense of humor. But I really am curious to know from what perspective you write, and for whom in particular your blogs are meant. Are you dating? Or waiting for this type of woman to come along? Do you write for men? Or for women to see what men really look for?
Now those are good questions. All kidding aside I think that men and women need a lot of work. Yes they can both be wonderful in their own right but there are some definite issues that need tinkering with.
To answer your questions bluntly, I would love for this type of woman to come along, I write for men and women, and I am currently single.
I do tend to write things for women because I feel they overanalyze men (ok, well everything, but mostly men) when there really is no need to. Men are the simplest animals on earth. I think the pure fact they we are so simple is what is so confusing to women. Could they really be THAT two dimensional? Yes. Yes we could.
We all write from experience, or write from lack of it.
I’m married, but still remember the ‘old’ days when woman would either be too shy, or too pushy. Rare to find the middle ground of a good conversationalist out for nothing more than a good… umm… conversation.
The old adage of every best friend of the opposite sex is a potential bed-fellow, never did it for me either, just as not believing every confident man is a ‘poser’ or every confident woman is a ‘slut’.
Okay, that be my mini-rant off my mini podium.
I need to join Jordan in the bathroom to discuss the reason behind his ‘single-status’ as well as chat with the girl crouched behind the urinal.
Haha, well first of all the women behind the urinal is clearly taken–I saw her first. Secondly, I agree with you and I think this is the first step to mending the U.S.-Britain relations.
On my single status, I just have to say that it is difficult and quite time consuming keeping Jason out of jail. Sexual harrassment suits just don’t “go away.”
Geez…I wish someone would make a cool website that would help people find other people…
I like what you have to say…an in such an eloguent manner. Sure chivalry is on the downslide, but does that mean that it should be done away with all together? I agree that women contradict themselves, hell im probably one of them. We claim we want equality and then we still want men to open the car door for us. But men are not as simple as you claim, they may be to you, but thats because you understand yourself. But thats not to say women are simple either… all humans are complex and require time in order to reach understanding, regardless of gender.
Sorry, going off on a tangent. This post deals with so many different issues. I dont expect a guy to be chivalrous towards me, but it certainly gets you brownie points. I also pay for my own food more often than not.
Just some thoughts… I have more if you’re interested. http://www.j-nelson.blogspot.com
I agree that people are not cut and dry, black and white (ok technically some are black and white) but I do feel that people complicate their life unnessarily.
And you’re right, I do have the benefit of being a man and thus have a front row seat to the male pysche so it is easy for me to say that “men are simple.” I’ve been one for some time and it comes quite naturally now.
Here’s my thought though: I have met thousands of women and I have met thousands of men. I can feel a consistency within the men–there are noticiable, constant similarities. Women, and I know this is a terrible generalization, don’t really know what they want (all the time). Or to be more clear, they want A LOT of things at once and rather not just focus on one of them. Whereas our good friend the male can focus on Money, Women, and Food. Usually independantly but they are mostly likely connected.
Finally, Chivarly is practically dead but I always feel that chilvarly is never expected, but always appreciated.
Thanks for posting, i will check out your site. =)
Hello all, I’m brand new to this blog but have already become quite intrigued by it. Good stuff, Jordan.
To begin with, I also disagree with the original statement. In my limited experience I’ve only come across a couple of women who won’t consider making the first move. Mostly, women I’ve met are willing enough to pounce on you if they want you, but will often look for signs of interest from you first.
I’m much less likely to pounce than be pounced upon, due to having learned that women are much more proficient predators than we give them credit for. Metaphorically, most of them can sneak up on you and have you by the throat before you know what’s hit you, but when they’re on the defensive they’re also uncannily able to sidestep your advances and kick you in the balls before you hit the ground.
The old fashioned idea of men chasing after women is going out the window fast because men are becoming more feminine and women are becoming more masculine, which is good. There’s nothing sexier than a woman drinking beer and watching football, except a naked woman serving you beer at a football game. I’m yet to find one of those, but I feel it’s a dream worth waiting for.
I’m also curious as to what people think makes someone a slut, as the word’s been used a few times. I know a few girls that have been branded sluts because they’re open minded to the idea of having sex outside of a relationship with a couple of guys they like (on separate occasions, usually). I don’t see a problem with that because it’s so easy for sex to be safe and without consequences. I mean, honestly, every guy would do the same if we could all figure out how to manage it.
I’ll shut up now
I encourage anybody at any time to tell me that I’ve got my head up my arse.
Hey there dylan…thanks for reading–glad you like it so far. =) So let’s see what we have here…
1. ok, let me try and be as delicate here as possible: the more attractive a woman gets, the less likely she is to approach the guy. There is no science in my statement but it does make sense. She’s hot, she knows it so why put the extra effort in? I am not saying that all hot women never go after guys but a higher percentage definitely do hang back and wait for the men. Women (yes and men) love being pursued. It feels good to be wanted and it doesn’t feel so good to be rejected. So if you’re a hot asset (an attractive woman) why increase your chances of being rejected when you can just feel pursued?
2. Women are not predators…they are random killing machines. Haha..kidding, kidding. I do agree that women put more thought into the hunt. Usually too much thought. Guys underanylze (dude, she has a nice ass, I’m sold) and women tend to overanalyze (do you think his ex gave him that shirt and he still wears it cause he thinks she has a better ass than i do and is only using me as a stepping stone to someone better?).
3. It is sexy when a woman knows what she wants but I am somewhat of an old fashioned guy when it comes to sex. I am going to piss some people off here but while women can enjoy sex for the sheer physical pleasure of it I do not think it comes to close to how men feel about sex. call it genetics, call it social programming, but a high percentage of men can COMPLETELY remove any sort of emotions from the act of sex. I am still not convinced women can do that. I’m not saying that women are not sexual beings. I’m just saying that they are programmed to be more selective and they are not made to just have sex. It could be argued that the most “pleasurable” part of random sex for women is just the feeling of being desired and wanted. Oh I’m gonna pay for saying that…
4. Yes the word slut is overused. I agree. Still, there are some male sluts and there are some female sluts. If a man or woman has little or no discretion on whom he or she takes to bed I might label them a slut. Remember, I’m old fashioned. I think it connects to the feeling that sex is something special (if you make it that way) and it possibly can be degraded if given away too easily.
5. You don’t have ur head up your arse…all opinions are valid. =)